69 posts tagged guydyke

Stop the Harassment of Girlfags! The debate continues...

alexjas0n:

toughasbro:

poppypicklesticks:

crossdreamers:

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Lately there has been a flurry of negative posts about girlfags, including attempts from gay and lesbian people at labeling them as fetishists and perverts.

First: “Girlfag” is not a precisely defined term. In practice it covers a wide variety…

I can’t stand fag hags. Especially the kind that lump trans men in with them… 

What the fuck you are labelling me as a “girl” and a “fag” just because I’m a trans guy who happens to be bi…
One of those terms is very triggering to my dysphoria, and the other one is a slur….

A couple of days ago another girlfag-basher reblogged my Stop the Harassment of Girlfags! post, leading – of course – to another barrage of verbal abuse.

Most of these comments are based on misunderstandings and misreading. Leaving the verbal abuse aside, I will address a few of the misconceptions:

@shadowqueenvycer writes: I don’t think trans men can be girlfags.“

The point is not that trans men are girlfags, but that some of them have been girlfags before transitioning. This is no different than trans men  having identified as butch lesbians before transitioning.

I know girlfags. It is true that the great majority of them do not suffer from gender dysphoria. Many of them identify as cis (even if there is room for them under the transgender umbrella).  

A significant number of them are transgender, though, regardless of what definition you use for that term,  and some are body and/or gender dysphoric.

In this way, they are not that different from their male to female counterparts, i.e. crossdressers, crossdreamers and other people assigned male at birth. Many of them have forced their true identity underground, in desperate attempts at living up to the expectations of friends, family and peers.

This is the most common life trajectory among dysphoric MTF transsexuals: They start out identifying as  crossdressers, crossdreamers, guydykes or genderqueer. See also the life of Lou Sullivan, the founder of the US FTM movement, who first called himself a female transvestite.

@bizzarolord writes: As a formerly gay-identified trans man (now bi, thanks, testosterone), I am not a fucking girlfag. I’m not anything related to “girl”, I hate the word “fag”, and I think much of yaoi is fetishizing and also inaccurate as to the gay/bi male experience.

I have never said that trans men are women. I know of no girlfag who believes this to be so. Trans men are men. Period! 

As for the fetish part: To me it is clear that crossdreaming (i.e. erotic fantasies of being the other sex, as in yaoi, slash and M/M) cannot be reduced to a fetish. I believe trans activist Julia Serano is right when she argues that such fantasies are expressions of a subconscious sex. 

The girlfag fantasies of being a gay man with a gay man are simply expressions of some kind of suppressed male identity combined with a sexual orientation towards men. 

I cringe when I hear trans men reduce crossdreaming and the girlfag experience to a fetish and a fetish only. This is exactly the line of argument that has been used to invalidate and erase gay men and lesbian women  for more than a century.

Here is a quote from one typical conservative hate site:

"The homosexual fetish is all about gay men using the bodies of their partners either to engage in masturbation or sodomy.”

Compare that quote to this one about girlfags:

“This is fetishistic in the rawest sense. Stop trying to excuse your narcissistic, fetishising behaviour…”

People who label LGBT people as sexual perverts are normally trying to erase their lives and identities and force them back into the closet. 

But all of this does not mean that yaoi comics, M/M romance novels and MTF transgender fiction do not have fetishistic elements. They obviously do. This also applies to gay porn and lesbian erotica.

If there is one culture that knows how to express fetishes, it is gay male culture. There is leather and chains, bears and drag queens. My gay male friends fetishize straight men all the time. That is fine with me.

We cannot expect girlfag comics and so-called TG fiction to reflect the reality of gay men’s or lesbian women’s lives. After all: the young girlfag has been raised as a girl, and the MTF crossdreamer has been raised as a boy.  But this does not mean that the longing that drives these people to write and read these stories is not authentic.

FTM trans men have most often been raised as girls. Because of this there are certain elements of male culture they have not assimilated. Is that a bad thing? Does it stop them from being men? Of course not!

@toughasabro: I can’t stand fag hags. Especially the kind that lump trans men in with them…

Fag hag was originally a term coined by gay men to describe straight women who wanted gay male friends. Originally it was a derogatory term, but my own gay male friends use it as a term of endearment. I  know of  some really great friendships between “fag hags” and gay men. 

But fag hags are not the same as girlfags. Fag hags do not normally identify with gay men. They do not dream about being a gay man with a gay man.

I am not fond of the term girlfag. There are strong negative connotations associated with the term “fag”. But please keep in mind that it was never meant as a sign of disrespect. It was based on term fag hag, a term coined and used by gay men. 

Girlfags are currently discussing alternatives to the term girlfag. 

(via echo-backup)

Asker Potrait
phoenixgau asked

How how how on Earth did people start using terms with slurs in them to describe an identity? I know you've said you wish there were different terms but that you're "stuck with them", but how exactly are you stuck with them? Who's forcing you continue using them? When I see or hear the word dyke I still get flashbacks to the time I came out to my high school boyfriend and he used that slur and well as suicide and murder threats against me.

crossdreamers answered

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Photo from the 2012 London Dyke March.

In order to answer this question I need to give you some context.

I started blogging about transgender issues over at Blogger some seven years ago. I realized that there was one expression of transgender lives that had become taboo: Sexual desire.

Male to female crossdressers and pre-op transsexuals who admitted to getting aroused by imagining themselves as their target sex was immediately labelled as perverts — by so-called “experts” and “classical trans women” alike.

If you think about it, it is hard to imagine how someone who identifies as a woman could fantasize about having sex if not as a woman, but this is how sexist misogyny works: Women were not supposed to have a strong libido, and any MTF trans person who wrote or read transgender erotica therefore had to be men.

This is changing now, as more and more trans women refuse to be stigmatized in this way. Julia Serano has given a good explanation for why such fantasies are a natural expression of a suppressed gender identity.

After a couple of years I got in touch with female crossdreamers. According to the “experts", they were not  supposed to exist. But there they were.

Many of them referred to themselves as girlfags. I realized that although girlfag and FTM crossdreamers are not synonymous concepts, they are related and overlapping. Many  girlfags crossdream, in the sense of imagining themselves as gay men in a gay relationship. In the same way many MTF crossdreamers dream of being a woman in a lesbian relationship.

I had found many gender dysphoric crossdreamers and trans women on the male assigned side. In a similar way I found binding, tucking and severe dysphoria on the girlfag side. Indeed, many of them reported the same trauma as gender dysphoric butches and gynephilic trans men. The main difference was their attraction to men.

I had doubts about the term girlfag. I still do. I realized that some would take offence by including a term that is often used as as a slur. Still, it was clear to me that the transgender community as a whole had much to gain from a dialog between FTM and MTF crossdreamers and crossdressers, and since this was the term the girlfags used for themselves, I decided to use it as well.

If you are not using the terms accepted by the groups you want to talk to, there will be no communication. There will be no visibility. There will be no recognition. They won’t even find you using Google.

I do not call myself a guydyke. I identify as  transgender. If you want, you can call me a MTF crossdreamer. Heck, if you want to, you can call me a guydyke as well, but it is not a term I use to describe myself.

Lately I have taken part in girlfag discussions on finding alternative terms for girlfag and guydyke. These discussions are ongoing. So far, we have not found a term that communicates well.

Indeed, many  girlfags  argue against abandoning the term. This debate is very similar to the recent “tranny” discussion. These girlfags argue that oppressed minorities can appropriate derogatory terms and make them their own. “Gay” and “queer” were considered offensive terms  at one time.

The term girlfag was, as far as I understand it, based on the term “fag hag”, which is still used by my gay male friends. It was originally an offensive term coined by gay men. It is clear to me, however, that my gay friends do not despise their female fans (the “hags”).

In a similar way gay men, lesbias and transgender have, at one time or the other, adopted and used terms like fairy, queer, queen, tranny, butch and dyke. Terms like “baby dyke” and “bull dyke” were coined by lesbians — not by their enemies. There are now Dyke Marches and Dykes on Bikes. It is hard to argue that “dyke”t has not been appropriated by lesbians.

All of these arguments are legitimate, but I still think it would better to have more neutral terms. But if I feel somewhat uncomfortable about the terms girlfag and guydyke, why I am using them actively on tumblr?

I have mentioned the main reason: To build a community with girlfags and other gender variant people.

There is another important reason, however: The recent aggressive persecution of girlfags on tumblr.

When people start invalidating transgender people by calling them fetishists, I go into warrior mode. Complaining about girlfags using the fag and dyke words, while at the same time reducing them to sexual perverts is nauseating. It is a kind of betrayal I have only seen among reactionary HBS separatists before, and I have lost all patience with that kind of  nonsense.

This aggression is actually causing a further lock-in into the terms girlfag and guydyke. We simply have to use the terms when responding to these attacks. The attacks also generates a stronger commitment to the term girlfag among girlfags. After all, this is schoolyard rule number 1: If you give in to a bully, her or she will harass you forever.

My guess is that as soon as we build  more respect for the diversity of sex and gender on tumblr, this conflict will pass. We, the girlfags, guydykes and crossdreamers of the world, will probably come up with other terms to describe our lives and our journeys. Hopefully, the transgender and gay attackers will realize that the girlfags and crossdreamers are family, and that it is probably wise to treat a group that contains so many transgender people and gay souls with a little more respect.

More on the Dyke Marches here! 
Read also this article on Dykes on Bikes.

On straight men who are fascinated by gay male relationships

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I got the following question in my mail box:

“Hey, thanks for the follow, but I wanted to ask something you seem to have extensive knowledge of. So there is girlfag and guydyke. We’ll, what would you call a straight man who’s infatuated with male homosexual couples? A guyfag?”

My answer:

To my knowledge there is no word for this, in the same way there is no word for lesbian women who watch gay male porn (which is actually quite common).  

The fact that straight men who like gay relationships or who watch gay porn are so rarely heard of is, I believe, that they break the ultimate taboo. A man who gets turn on watching two men having sex is per definition gay. But we know that it is not as simple as that.

I asked my friends over at the Facebook girlfag/guydyke forum about this, and some of them brought up the general fascination for boobs, found among both men and women, gay or straight.

I suspect men and women share some inborn triggers to specific visual clues, but that we as kids and adolescents are conditioned not to react to the triggers defined as belonging to the other sex. 

I would also guess that many straight men react positively to the idea of being penetrated. Again our culture tell us that men are not supposed to feel this urge, as all manly men are presumed programmed to be the pro-active penetrator.

Notice how in the Hangover movies, anal penetration and feminization is considered the most humiliating experience a man can have.  Still, the male film makers are so fascinated by the concept that they just have to include the scenes!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaMOC35DXYg 

In a misogynistic culture opening your body up  to another human being is considered feminine and submissive, and therefore inferior. In the real world the embracer may  perfectly well be the one leading.

The fact is that biologically speaking men are equipped with an insane number of nerve endings in the anal area. Moreover, the stimulation of the prostate alone can be enough to bring a man to orgasm. To my knowledge no evolutionary oriented sexologist has ever tried to explain why evolution has given men this ability, most likely because the idea scares the shit out of them.

I would also add that some straight men’s fascination for gay couples may be caused by other factors. Some gay men are allowed more leeway when it comes to expressing emotions – feelings that are often considered “feminine”. Some may also be fascinated by the liberal attitudes to promiscuous sex found in some parts of the gay community.

In others this fascination may reflect a suppressed bisexual or transgender nature.

One of my friends over at the girlfag/guydyke forum summarized all of this quite nicely:

“I will never get why people assume that categories are a faithful picture of human nature. Many straight women love lesbian porn, many gay men love straight porn, etc. Straight guys just don’t talk about liking gay porn because of the stigma. There are studies that show that all men love to look at penises, gay or straight. It’s similar with women who often love to look at boobs, or at naked women.”

Finn and Charlie get Hitched: Everyone is Someone’s Fetish

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poppypicklesticks:

drownshadow:

A girlfag is a person assigned female at birth who feels a strong attraction to gay and bisexual men. Girlfags often have an affinity for gay male culture.

so in other words, girlfags are creepy straight girls who want to be gay and have an extremely stereotypical idea about gay male culture and fetishise gay men 

Tony Breed is now publishing a print de luxe version of his wonderful comic about the gay couple Finn and Charlie.

Does the title, Everyone is Someone’s Fetish, mean that Breed is reducing homosexuality to a fetish?

I think not!  

It is very simple, really:

Gay men may have fetishes, but these fetishes do not cause their sexual orientation. Non-transgender straight women may get turned on by “stocky bearded red heads” as well, but this preference does not explain their gender identity.

Girlfags may also prefer some types of men over others, but this is not what makes them girlfags. They are attracted to gay men, because they identify with them. 

So please stop using the fetish theory to invalidate people you do not understand!

Previous editions of the comic series can be bought over at Amazon

[Update: Added missing word “not” in second paragraph.]

(via poppypicklesticks-blog)

The Girlfag and Guydyke Pledge

nor-gay:

crossdreamers:

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nor-gay:

“girlfag”
“guydyke”

you’re literally using slurs as
your little labels while claiming that you respect the people you fetishise

get out

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, do you? Yet, here you are, telling me who I am.

Imagine someone coming up to a…

Listen, It doesn’t matter how many times you compare people not liking you using insults in your little labels to actual discrimination against gay people, you will never gain approval from gay people. Especially when you fucking use the words “fag” and “dyke”

ah yes, I, a transgender person, would dehumanise transgender people. yep….

…

I’m sorry, but since when were you guys trans?

honestly it doesn’t take half a brain to realise that your labels and fetishisation is wrong. comparing actual oppression to someone simply not liking your bullshit is wrong.

If you’re only attracted to homosexuals, then i think you need to get your head out of your ass because homosexual people are no different to heterosexual people. Aside from stereotypes there is no difference between straight people and gay people apart from who they are attracted to.

Let me get this straight: You are 15 years old and you know everything about what it means to be transgender?

You know shit! I have another blog post on this topic today. But do not read it! You may be forced to reconsider your dogmatic prejudices.

Here is the short version, though: A significant proportion of girlfags, guydykes, crossdreamers and MTF crossdressers are gender dysphoric. Many of them also end up transitioning.You are negating transgender people by calling them fetishists.

What do you think that says about you?

As for the terms girlfag and guydyke: I would definitely have preferred different labels. Indeed, girlfags are discussing better alternatives as we speak. But right now, girlfag is the term girlfags use, and who am I to argue?

I do not identify as a guydyke or a crossdreamer. I identify as transgender, because I am transgender, even by the stupid truscum standards. So stop pretending that you know anything about me or my girlfag brothers.

Stop the Harassment of Girlfags!

hand-of-winter:

captain-ameribun:

salorast:

poppypicklesticks:

crossdreamers:

image

Lately there has been a flurry of negative posts about girlfags, including attempts from gay and lesbian people at labeling them as fetishists and perverts.

First: “Girlfag” is not a precisely defined term. In practice it covers a wide variety of female bodied persons, from…

“stop the harassment of girlfags!" 

"LEAVE THE YAOI FANGIRLS WHO FETISHISE GAY MEN INTO NOTHING MORE THEN FASHION ACCESSORIES AND PETS AND TRIVIALISE HOMOPHOBIA AND GAY IDENTITY ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

shut your mouth  

Your sexuality is not real. It will never be real. It will only be real in dreams.

But if you ever try to take your delusions out of your dreams and into reality? I will be more than happy to slap you upside the head until reality comes back into you.

You are straight and nothing you say or do will convince me or the larger gay community otherwise.

This… is a thing?  That people want to be?

I know this is old, but I’ve been off Tumblr for a while. I would like to clarify that this rant is directed at the OP, not the person from whom I am reblogging. This is going to be an enraged, disorganised rant. I apologise in advance.

I’d like to point out that the “girlfag” thing, particularly the aspect of dragging trans people into it in order to try and legitimise the concept, is actively harmful to gay, lesbian and bisexual trans people.

I am a gay trans man and the OP’s argument made me cringe. I did not ask to be hauled into this. I have - and want - nothing to do with this. Stop trying to speak for me and others like me. This has precious little to do with being transsexual.

More to the point, I get enough shit from people already for being a gay trans man without this nonsense. This sort of thing is why people look down on us. This sort of thing is why I have to put up with people assuming I’m just a straight yaoi fangirl who wants to be a man because teehee it’s hot. This is partly why I was afraid to disclose my trans status when my now-boyfriend first expressed an interest in me. This is bullshit. In pushing the legitimacy of this “identity”, you are harming other people.

You are also conflating trans identities with fetishes. That is also fucking harmful. See, a lot of folks out there already think we’re just perverts who transition for a sexual thrill. This thing you’re pushing only encourages that belief.

Furthermore, as a gay man, trans or not, I am sick to death of the fetishisation of relationships involving two men. I don’t give a damn what turns you on, but I sure as hell object when it percolates out into the real world and harms real people.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m going for a big mug of tea and a puff on the ol’ e-cig to calm me down.

First: Please stop this “girlfag is a fetish” nonsense. What is that even supposed to mean? Are they identifying with gay men in the same way some gay men are turned on by leather and chains?  

If that is the case you are using the exact same argument against girlfags as bigots have been using against homosexuals and transgender since Alfred Binet came up with the fetish concept.

Or is it the fact that some girlfags get turned on by the idea of being a gay man with a gay man that bothers you? In other words: You have adapted the kind of sexual puritanism that both Christian fundamentalist and radical feminists use to invalidate transgender people, and cannot accept that the fact that sex (in the sense of identity) is often expressed through sex (as in sexuality).

Good God man! What are we to say about gay porn and gay saunas? If there is one culture that is good at fetishising bodies and sexual activities it is gay male culture. Not that it bothers me, mind you! But it bothers me that you use the language used to invalidate them to dismiss girlfags.

But this is not about what’s right and what’s wrong, is it? Because, you might as well admit it: You have no clue about what drives and motivates a girlfags. You are just repeating the prejudices you have found on tumblr.

You are just embarrassed. As you say yourself: “I get enough shit from people already for being a gay trans man without this nonsense.”  And because of this embarrassment you are willing to sacrifice other transgender people who do not live up to your standards.

As I have pointed out elsewhere: If we are to follow such standards, even Lou Sullivan and Julia Serano would have been dismissed as  fetishists.

Make no mistake about it: Girlfags and guydykes, crossdreamers and crossdressers are transgender, and not only in the wide umbrella sense of the word.

I have been collaborating and communicating with gender variant people for many years now, and I know with absolute certainty  that a significant proportion of the girlfags and crossdreamers are gender dysphoric as well – some of them severely so. And the reason I know this, is that I have been diagnosed as such myself. 

You seem to think that it is easy to divide transgender people into those that are transsexual and those that are not. It isn’t easy, and as soon as you start trying to do so, you inevitably end up invalidating the identity of other transsexuals – people who have not yet reached your level of self understanding, and who live out their own suppressed identity through crossdressing and erotica.

Sure, many yaoi fan girls are not gender dysphoric. But many of them are. I suggest you take a look at my conversations with Rayka, an Iranian girlfag I have come to respect very much. When you start talking to transgender people, things become more complicated and messy. And you, of all people, should know that!

(via hand-of-winter-blog)

The Girlfag and Guydyke Pledge

image

nor-gay:

“girlfag”
“guydyke”

you’re literally using slurs as
your little labels while claiming that you respect the people you fetishise

get out

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, do you? Yet, here you are, telling me who I am.

Imagine someone coming up to a gay man saying: “Get out of my neighbourhood, you f*cking pervert. All you do is fetishising male bodies in your leather clubs and saunas. I am sure you suffer from some kind of childhood emasculation trauma, you weirdo!”

But wait a minute! That is exactly what the bigots and so-called “experts” have told gay men for over a hundred years, isn’t  it? And they were all wrong. The only thing they achieved was causing an insane amount of hurt and despair, leading to the unnecessary deaths of far too many.

Yet, here you are, cocky and self confident, using the exact same language against crossdreamers, crossdressers, girlfags and guydykes.

You think you are righteous. But the fact is that you are dehumanising transgender people in the same way homophobic bastards have invalidated gay people for ages. You are the worst kind of hypocrite. 

(via gaycrane-deactivated20210730)

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